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Build

The Turk

by zoroasterisk

14
26 Comments

Details

Date Published

May 19, 2017

Date Built

April 25, 2017

CPU Clock Rate

4.7GHz

CPU Temperature While Idle

33.0° C

CPU Temperature Under Load

85.0° C

GPU Core Clock Rate

2.08GHz

GPU Effective Memory Clock Rate

11.0GHz

GPU Temperature While Idle

27.0° C

GPU Temperature Under Load

73.0° C

Description

I fell in love with the Silverstone ML08. This machine is designed primarily for gaming at high end, targeting 1440p at high frame/refresh rates. I've been gaming on a potato of a laptop, and have finally gotten to a point where I can go back to desktop gaming after a long time away.

I should probably talk a bit about part selection. I knew going in that Kaby Lake runs pretty warm, and this being an ITX build, I decided to go with the 7600k mainly because of its lower TDP. I figured that if it ran cooler stock, I'd be able to get it to behave a little better when/if it became time to OC, or at the very least it'd let me run the fans at lower RPM's. It's now delidded, so I'll be adding some CPU/GPU benchmarks in a few days, laziness permitting.

Speaking of GPU's, I picked mine based around the 1440p/100ish fps target. The 1080 SC2 was also picked for its lower TDP, 180, which is identical to stock. Given that basically every 1080 (and every Pascal card in general) behaves the same when trying to overclock, paying extra for more power delivery or a binned chip seemed super wasteful this generation. The cards just hit their power limit first, making the thermal limit essentially meaningless. This one fluctuates between about 2000-2100mhz in Unigene Heaven, while maintaining 67-68* like clockwork.

Moving on, "Which CPU cooler should I buy?" is probably the most asked question over at Overclock.net. There are basically only 2 choices. A cooler with a (fanless) height of 40mm will allow 25mm remaining mm of space for a full-size fan, despite official Silverstone data stating that the limit is a paltry 58mm. Therefore, the only rational choices for CPU cooler are the ID-Cooling IS-60, or the Deepcool Gabriel. Everything else is either just barely too tall (Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev. B, Thermalright AXP-100, Prolimatech Samuel, Reeven Brontes, Xigmatek Janus, or Raijintek Pallas) or only supports tiny 92mm fans (Noctua NH-L9i, Silverstone AR-06, or Cryorig C7). Of course, the IS-60 or Gabriel both come with garbage-tier fans that should be replaced with something that is both full-sized and optimized for high static pressure/low noise. The eponymous Noctua NF-F12, or it's quieter/less powerful cousin, the NF-P12, will fill this role nicely.

Thanks to @phdpepper here and on Overclock.net, I knew that this case works best when modded to allow 3x80mm fans in the upper part of the case, to help exhaust air from the GPU. Unlike him, I have mine routed directly to a PWM header on the motherboard, and controlled in software via Speedfan. And thanks to an Amazon reviewer named Thomas, I'm clued in to the above info dump about CPU coolers. In this build, you'll see pictures of both:

1 - Just the basics. The only connected power cable is going to the Mobo. This is the most important cable, because it 's the one with the most bulk. I might get a Cablemod one instead. I originally fed it behind the back panel, around the case, and through the hole at the bottom of the case, but getting the panel over the CPU/PSU side of the computer ended up being very difficult in that configuration, so I routed it behind the mobo instead.

2 - Here you can see everything hooked up, except the 3 GPU chamber fans and the CPU cooler. I'd seen ML08/RVZ02 builds where they'd managed to fit more things around the back of the case, but this seemed the most logical arrangement, given where all the connectors are on the STRIX 270I.

3 - Everything in, now. NF-F12 FTW!

4 - Mobo cable routed behind the mobo itself, so that the inevitable bend in the case panel that it causes will be somewhat manageable. And of course, the 1080. It's just barely small enough to accept the GPU retaining bracket, but it works. Very helpful for a build intended to be able to move.

5 - Closeup of the GPU area, with panel but without handle. Pay no attention to the bank card behind the curtain.

6 - This is the first shot of the 3x80mm fan mod. If you are going to do the same thing, this should help you plan where your fan holes are going to go. That missing part at the bottom used to have the stock vent holes.

7 - A hole saw would probably be better, but a Dremel will do the job, albeit not as cleanly. If you're doing this mod, too, spend extra time aligning your mounting holes. As you can see here, they're off center by a few mm each.

8 - Almost done.

9 - Radius test. I didn't end up keeping the fan pictured here, because SilenX makes terrible garbage and should go out of business. I also ended up switching over to metal grilles, for slightly more airflow, but mainly because they're more comfortable to knock your knuckles against than the plastic Silverstone's.

So that's my build! If you plan to emulate it, get a Deepcool Gabriel instead of the cooler I got. Like I said, it'll fit a 120/140x25mm fan, but I bet it'll get to you in better condition than my China-shipped IS-60 got to me. Also, don't get my monitor. Get the 27" S2716DG instead. It's dropped in price dramatically from when I originally put this together.

5/25 Edit: Did benches, took screens.

10 - Fan curves. Notes written on the top section reflect UEFI settings.

11 - AIDA64 Stress test results. BCLK 103 / Multiplier 43 / VCore 1.18 Mem Freq. 3296

12 - Unigene Heaven, Extreme Preset.

13 - Unigene Heaven, Custom profile to better emulate what I play at - 1440p, AAx2, etc.

Part Reviews

CPU

Great CPU, does its job. Intel shouldn't have started cheaping out on their TIM, but what can you expect from a complacent behemoth. If I were doing this build again, I'd have Waited For Ryzen out of spite alone.

CPU Cooler

Awesome cooler, and one of the few that will allow a 25mm-wide fan inside my ML08. The stock fan is trash, so the specs of it are essentially meaningless, as its perfomance in benchmarks because of that. Paired with a Noctua NF-F12, it's best-in-slot.

I got mine from Newegg, and it shipped directly from China, complete with customs stickers, so expect it to get knocked around in transit just like mine did.

Motherboard

Solid board from a solid manufacturer. UEFI is well layed out, overclocking features leave nothing to be desired, and the sound quality is pristine. I would re-arrange where the connectors go, and I don't really care about RGB, but those are just minor nitpicks. If it had a Thunderbolt 3 port, it'd be perfect.

Memory

Decently priced at the speed I want it at without any obnoxiously tall heat spreaders, and from a brand I trust.

Storage

The Samsung 960 Pro is proof that performance in benchmarks != performance that humans can detect. That being said, the warranty helps to offset buyer's remorse somewhat.

Storage

Best price/performance NVME SSD I could find. Highly underrated product, IMO.

Storage

One of the best Price/Performance HDD's I could find, and from a brand I trust. It makes this funky "prong" noise when I shut my computer down, and I've kind of grown to like it.

Video Card

High performance, low noise, decent price. EVGA had received a bit more bad publicity than they deserved with the ACX/VRM debacle, IMHO. The ICX line of cards goes absolutely insane with thermal pads, thermal sensors, and cooler overdesign, and I couldn't be happier about it.

Case

A truly brilliant design. The split up CPU and GPU compartments allow for some really fun stuff, and help to completely negate the thermal concerns inherent in an ITX build. The thinness is very, very impressive.

That being said, the GPU compartment could be much better ventilated. Many owners have retrofitted it with 3x 80mm fans, which really should've been done by Silverstone. Also, it would be improved by adding just 5mm to the side measurement. Reason being, virtually any low profile CPU cooler would work, and be able to use a 25mm wide fan at the same time.

Power Supply

Doesn't have the clicking problem that the equivalent Silverstone SFX PSUs have, apparently because it's a newer design. Decent price/performance ratio, and from a brand I trust to not explode my computer.

The cables, especially the mobo cable, are a bit of a pain to work with.

Case Fan

The only 80x80x15mm cooler I could find with PWM. Detachable cables a plus, cost a definite minus.

Case Fan

One of the best radiator/CPU cooler fans there are. High static pressure, relatively low noise.

Monitor

It has all the specs I was looking for.I needed a monitor that was 1440p, supported GSYNC, and had a refresh rate of at least 120hz. At 165hz, it's officially overkill. I only wish I had waited a little longer, so I could've snagged the 27" variant for almost the exact same price.

Keyboard

Least expensive non-tenkeyless backlit keyboard with mechanical keys I could find. Heavy enough to be used as a cudgel, should the need arise. What more could one ask for in a desktop keyboard?

Mouse

Feels great in-hand, and "it just works".

Comments Sorted by:

Samuxd955 1 point 6 months ago

Why you dont use a i7-7700k or a Ryzen 5 1600X?

zoroasterisk submitter 1 Build 1 point 6 months ago

I was going for maximum single core performance (IPC) with the lowest heat output I could find, and the extra cores would've gone to waste.

Also, I peaked at your build. I'm assuming the monitor listed is the one you plan to game on. A GTX 1080, whether made by MSI or Gigabyte, will go to waste at 1080p/60hz. Better to get either a better monitor or a cheaper video card, imo.

blockbuster4664 1 Build 1 point 6 months ago

He's right^^ the 1080 is the in between of Ultta 1440 or 4K, while a 1060 is really meant for 1080p 60fps

Samuxd955 1 point 6 months ago

Thanks for that, now i go to a 144hz monitor

MotorizedWalrus 1 point 6 months ago

How are your CPU and GPU temps under load? I'm doing a similar build in the next few months but with a 1080 Ti and 7700k.

zoroasterisk submitter 1 Build 1 point 6 months ago

GPU temps are fine, 67-68 avg, 73 seems to be the max if Heaven is left on for 30 mins+.

CPU temps, on the other hand, are not great at all. Idle only gets down to 50 or so, and this is after being delidded by Silicon Lottery. Load temps are ridiculous, hitting 78-83 as soon as the bench starts, then gradually getting up to 90, at which point we have to stop, obviously.

That's all at BCLK of 103/multiplier limit of 44/VCore of 1.2. I basically picked those numbers out of a hat, b/c I haven't really had time to exhaustively test it, and I still need to apply new thermal paste. I'll message you tomorrow once I've got (what I hope will be) better numbers.

MotorizedWalrus 1 point 6 months ago

Cool, I'll keep my eyes open for it. Thanks, it'll be a great help.

zoroasterisk submitter 1 Build 1 point 6 months ago

I gave you a bit of bad info before. Suffice it to say I was doing it wrong. CPU temps are predictable now, but still nothing crazy good. I could still replace the thermal compound, but I think it's alright for now. I've got all the screens up there now, so let me know if you want a different report. The basic idea is that CPU temp is topping out at around 80 @ 4400MHZ in benches, with averages that are much more reasonable.

I will say that running Prime95 will send it right back to 90+*C, and it'll hit 91/92 with a screen freeze any time I try to do the non-memory CPU benchmark reports on AIDA64. That could just be me being a noob, I'm not sure.

The 3x80mm fan mod is going to be absolutely essential for your 1080 TI, and I wouldn't bother with a K-Series CPU unless you want put an AIO in it, with the rad mounted externally. That being said, at resolutions higher than 1080p, the CPU is effectively removed as a bottleneck in most games, so the relatively mediocre clock speed there is largely irrelevant unless you're also needing to do content creation or something like that.

Also, you might be satisfied with 'just' a 1080 for 1440p. A 1080 TI should probably be paired with a 4k@60fps type setup, IMO.

MotorizedWalrus 1 point 6 months ago

Thanks for the follow-up. My intention is to run a 4K@60fps setup but in a small form factor that can be easily moved. Temps seem to be the issue all around. Id be very comfortable modding the ML08, but I'm uncomfortable putting such a big unsightly hole in the panel to externally mount an AIO. For minimizing the size of the hole, I've considered a custom loop on the CPU with a quick disconnect for easily opening the panel for maintenence and future upgrades, but a custom loop seems to be 3x the cost of an AIO which just barely exceeds my budget. Have you got any ideas?

zoroasterisk submitter 1 Build 1 point 6 months ago

A couple, yeah. Are you going to be using the box for anything other than gaming? How about streaming? A 7600K or 7600 would have comparable performance (in most games) against an I7, and it'd run cooler, especially if you delid. The difference between the two CPU's gets smaller the higher your resolution goes, because the load gets more and more put on the GPU to push all those pixels. So, switching to an I5 would be the cheapest way.

If you want to stick with the I7, I'd go a different route, case-wise. Unless you've got a pocket dimension, a custom loop won't fit in the ML08/RVZ02, full stop. The reservoir alone will need external mounting. If you want to consider an FTZ01/RVZ01(E)/ML07, you could definitely fit either a custom loop or an AIO inside with nothing poking out. There were a few posts over on Overclock.net that had pictures of such a set-up, and I could probably find them again.

It is also worth mentioning that Corsair has a pre-built called the One that is SFF and has a custom loop for the CPU and GPU, albeit at the cost of making further modification nigh impossible and a slightly higher cost of ownership. Oh, and the 1080 TI model if out of stock, of course.

But yeah, those are the best options I can think of. BTW, I peeked at your build, as well. You do know that the ASUS PG279Q is a 2k monitor, not 4k, correct?

annasoh323 1 Build 1 point 5 months ago

Fine work on the mods and cable routing. Did you find that the three top fans also affected CPU temps directly? I've got the RVZ02 cousin case and it seems that they would have a lesser impact on the mobo/CPU/power supply chamber because of the hard drive shelf. Do you have comparison data from before/after?

zoroasterisk submitter 1 Build 1 point 5 months ago

I didn't do any 'before' testing, no. I actually had the case modded before all the parts had arrived. And you're right, the effect of the top fans basically only affects the GPU temps, for the exact reason you specified.

CPU thermals are a pretty big deal, though. I can keep it from throttling, but I was 'only' able to get 4.5GHZ out of it. I still need to try benchmarking it with the fan pulling out, I just haven't had time. What made you pick the CPU cooler yet did?

annasoh323 1 Build 1 point 5 months ago

I went with the C7 based on one of the build guides I was using at the time. I did read some low profile cooler comparison articles but ultimately, I think I was just tired of reading and went with something I "knew" would work based on the guide. It's hard because no guide is really comprehensive and there are new products appearing all the time.

I'm also "only" able to hit 4.5GHz before the temps start to get worrisome on a 15 minute Realbench run. After redoing my cables and somewhat reassessing the space I have, I was leaning toward jury-rigging some slim fans with as much diameter as I could fit as additional intake somewhere off to the side. Your question makes me wonder if I may be better served by re-investigating for more efficient coolers. One counter thought I have to that is that the USB 3.0 header is inconveniently placed right near the CPU socket and any bigger coolers may have clearance issues... I'll have to give this one some thought.

zoroasterisk submitter 1 Build 1 point 5 months ago

I don't think additional case fans will have a very noticeable effect on CPU temps, at least not as intake. Your board components might drop a few degrees, but that's about all I'd expect to gain.

I had a look at your board layout. That USB 3 header position is an abomination. A right angle connector might help: https://www.moddiy.com/products/90-Degree-Angled-USB-3.0-19%252dPin-20%252dPin-Internal-Header-Mini-Connector.html

I think the main problem causing the high CPU temps is the lack of exhaust. The hot air expelled by the CPU cooler just kind of hangs inside the case, only barely moved by the force of the CPU fan. That's why I put so much emphasis on getting a fan with higher static pressure. A 92mm fan doesn't seem like it'd push enough air, and the intake is far enough away from the case panel that I'd be worried about recirculation.

annasoh323 1 Build 1 point 5 months ago

Hmm, good thoughts. Well, first off, sorry to be hijacking the comments on your build. For the USB thing, I looked at the link and I think I'll have to make sure it would bend the right way but if it works, it looks like a good suggestion. For the fan thing, without having detailed measurements or really trying to mock it up, I was imagining using a slim, high SP 120mm or 140mm (if I can fit it) in the space above the cooler. My (inexperienced) thinking is that it can help induce positive pressure out of the vents by the I/O shield on the back of the case and since it would be sitting right up against the side panel vent, it wouldn't recirc. One thing I don't know is how stacked fans behave.

Edit to add: the fins of the C7 are oriented toward the rear and the RAM. When the panel was removed the system on, it did feel like there was a steady stream out toward the back. I couldn't feel air coming up from the RAM but maybe it was redirecting it more towards the hard drive axis instead of outward toward the side panel, if any of this makes sense.

zoroasterisk submitter 1 Build 1 point 5 months ago

You have nothing to apologize for, lol. The whole reason I posted this thing was to talk shop with like-minded folks.

~~The L9I you have is 37mm tall, so a 25mm thick fan would fit, albeit very tightly. My IS-60 heatsink is 40mm tall, and the case fits it and my 25mm thick NF-F12, albeit with some slight bow to the outer case. I wouldn't be too worried about re-circulation, and I think there'd be just barely enough room for both fans without worrying about the blades getting stopped, but I can't be positive.

Nobody's ever done that before, to my knowledge. You'd want to mount the larger fan to the side panel itself, maybe with some zip ties or something like that, but it could work. Excellent idea~~

Damnit, nevermind. You have the Cryorig C7, not the L9I. I'm should pay more attention. You could still fit a slim fan in there, but I think in that instance a single larger fan or the above setup would probably work better.