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Build

Littlefoot

by Pazaz

68
59 Comments

Part List View full price breakdown

Details

Date Published

Feb. 15, 2018

Date Built

April 26, 2018

CPU Clock Rate

3.7 GHz

GPU Core Clock Rate

2.04 GHz

GPU Effective Memory Clock Rate

11.016 GHz

GPU Temperature While Idle

35.0° C

GPU Temperature Under Load

65.0° C

Description

Changed from an Intel i7-8700K/Z370 to a AMD Ryzen 7 2700X/B350, so most of the comments apply to that build combination

Abnormal Behavior FIXED (2018-05-18):

Internet Flash didn't work in the BIOS, but Instant flash did. Updating from BIOS version 4.40 to 4.60 has fixed my intermittent boots, I'm still testing temperatures (been busy at work) but they look good in the A4-SFX.

Heatsink Testing (2018-05-11):

Ambient temperature: 73 F / 23 C
Overclock: 4050 MHz, 1.25v
Controls:
- Thermal paste is Cryorig CP7
- Power plan set to High Performance
- Fan speeds maxed out
- Critical temperature set at "80 C" (90 in BIOS, but Tctl is +10), tests stopped there to prevent heavy thermal cycling throughout tests. Denoted by !
- Reported sensor values are Tdie and CPU Package Power

Graphene Al C7: (graphene coat over newer C7 design)
- No Side Panel
-- Idle after fresh boot | 20W | 30 C
- Stock Side Panel
-- Idle after fresh boot | 20W | 30 C
-- AIDA64 FPU | 110W | 80 C !
-- Cinebench R15 | 115W | 70 C
-- Prime95 v29.4b8 | 140W | 80 C !
-- Idle after stress testing | 25W | 35-40 C
-- Overwatch | 65-70W | 57.5-63.5 C
-- Destiny 2 | 60-70W | 62-72C
- Window Kit
- Window Kit w/o Window

Al C7: (original C7 design)
- No Side Panel
- Stock Side Panel
- Window Kit
- Window Kit w/o Window

Conclusions
- The I/O shield area traps heat. You can feel it from the outside of the case.
- Stock side panel has really good heat dissipation.
- Window kit has awful heat dissipation. But still useful because it acts as a full cutout if you don't use the window.

Low Profile Cooler (2018-05-01):

Using a Cryorig C7 now, with a 3D-printed 92mm fan mount for my Noctua fan. Pictures added to reflect changes.
As expected the stock Prism cooler beats the C7 (no competition with copper heatpipes, direct contact, and a larger surface area / fan). But I'm going to play around with different ideas and if I can improve the performance I'll let you know. Currently running at 70 C under load.

Ryzen Arrival (2018-04-26):

It's alive! I'm performing benchmarks and thermal testing using the stock heatsink, but it absolutely doesn't fit the DAN Cases A4-SFXv2 -- if I didn't have a window kit I wouldn't be able to have any side panel. I took the acrylic off of my window kit so I have some form of cable cover.
Important to note:
- The motherboard booted without any BIOS update.

Massive Changes (2018-04-20):

  • AMD Ryzen 7 2700x (on the way)
  • ASRock Fatal1ty AB350 Gaming-ITX/ac (Mini-ITX doesn't benefit from X-series chipsets)
  • 512GB WD Black M.2 (love that it has 0 cables, my only concern is the temperature behind motheboard)
  • 1TB 840 EVO 2.5" (Stored internally this time)
  • Corsair SF600 (So much easier to route cables)

Part Reviews

CPU

XFR2 basically eliminates the need for most people to overclock. Feel free to let your beastly CPU handle itself :)

Motherboard

No benefit to an X-series chipset when using Mini-ITX, making this the best price/performance ratio for an ITX build.
Great VRM design (on all Fatal1ty boards).

Memory

Great set, low profile, and runs at the rated speeds. Not B-Die though.

Storage

Best NVMe drive for the price. Goes on sale regularly.

Storage

Little dated (Samsung is up to the 860 EVO now) but still in perfect working condition. High capacity.

Video Card

Amazing performance and a beefy heatsink; Nvidia and EVGA did a great job on this card.
Runs anything (properly developed) without issues and lets me play games @ 1080p @ 165-240 FPS.

Case

Probably the smallest and most capable case I've built in.

Power Supply

Perfect length for size-constrained builds. SFX-L is just slightly too long for the A4-SFX.
Stock cables are really stiff at the connectors.

Comments Sorted by:

Mason54 23 Builds 8 points 9 months ago

Runs anything (properly developed) without issues and lets me play games @ 1080p @ 165-240 FPS.

PUBG We are all looking at you. Excellent SFF build!

Ryan_Ambrose 3 points 9 months ago

Fantastic build, mate.

Having recently purchased an i7-8700k myself for my second gaming PC ever, there's no way I'd ever attempt the deliddling process on the CPU, I'm way too much of a novice at this, though I might try overclocking it at some point.

Also, looking at your temps, I might just have to switch my H100iv2 for a CRYORIG down the line.

Once again, that's one heck of a build.

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 2 points 9 months ago

Delidding will drop you around 10-15 C easily, and you can overclock higher on that AIO with the additional headroom. So consider it at one point :) I used a specialized tool to separate the IHS, basically 0 risk of breaking or damaging the CPU.
I only recommend non-tower air coolers if you're delidded, the 8700K is too hot otherwise

Rhizomorphic 1 point 9 months ago

Why not tower air coolers, like Noctua D9L? Obviously it wouldn't fit in the Dan Case but don't they perform well?

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 9 months ago

My bad! I was referencing his comment on switching from his AIO. I prefer tower air coolers if I'm not watercooling.
I can't edit my old comment so for clarification, I didn't mean "I only recommend non-tower air coolers [...]", what I was trying to say was "I can only recommend non-tower air coolers if [...]"
The more surface area the better (typically) :)

Rhizomorphic 2 points 9 months ago

Oh I see, thank you for clarifying.

[comment deleted]
Timjk10 2 points 9 months ago

Well done, love the name

DeadCarrot 2 Builds 2 points 9 months ago

That's one awesome looking case! Wow, good job man!

+1

JediMasterFox 1 Build 2 points 9 months ago

I love the external internal HD's, that being said i have some questions regarding the delidding. I too will be going through this as just backed the Louqe Ghost S1 which is more or the same Form Factor, ive been contemplating this back and forth and just curious what tool did you use? On a scale of 1-10, what would you say the difficulty is? Did you use conductonaut? Are there any adjustment to the mount brackets?

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 9 months ago

I used a Rockit 88 from RockItCool but I hear good things about Der8auer's Delid Die Mate 2.
Difficulty is probably a 2 at most, in my opinion it's a 1 after doing it a few times.

  • Place the CPU in the tool
  • Screw the hex key until the IHS pops off
  • Remove old TIM from bottom of IHS and top of CPU die
  • Scrape glue off of the CPU and IHS (makes temperature consistent across cores)
  • Place thermal paste or liquid metal on CPU (and a bit of liquid metal on bottom of IHS if using liquid metal)
  • Optionally, relid the CPU (I've never had to do this - I just float the CPU in the socket. It's held down by the ILM on Intel, but AMD is different)
  • Otherwise, place the CPU in the socket without the IHS and then carefully place it on. Secure CPU like normal afterwards.

Heatsinks will work like normal but be careful if you need to remove the CPU as the IHS won't be attached unless you relid.
Thankfully the IHS never moves under pressure once you secure it in the socket so there's nothing to worry about.

I used CLU as that's what I had laying around but I hear great things about Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut. I use Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut as thermal paste (not a liquid metal), I think they're a great company.

fergie1815 1 Build 2 points 8 months ago

Love this, I am also in the process of a Dan A4 v2 build and just have my graphics card to purchase. I have been looking at the EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB FTW3 GAMING which you used, I was concerned as it showed as an incompatibility on part picker due to length. Is the fit process difficult (you mentioned removing and then replacing the riser)?

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 8 months ago

Physically the card will fit but it's not a supported size. And no, not a difficult process but it did require some shimmying to get it into place, just put it in the riser first (the height of the card makes it impossible/very hard so do it out of the case) and then align it with the PCI slot. Screw riser and card into place.

fergie1815 1 Build 2 points 8 months ago

Thanks, I have went ahead and order the card

fergie1815 1 Build 2 points 8 months ago

Also mean to ask how are you finding the temps from the graphics card? I am planning on using the stock side panels and a little concerned based on your temp table.

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 8 months ago

Ah, I neglected to list GPU temps, I'll format it a bit as well, been busy with work!

Install EVGA Precision XOC, set a custom fan curve (any is fine. Aggressive/Quiet/Default are better than the firmware-set profile) and you'll be fine. My GPU stays significantly (10C+) cooler than the CPU, and under real usage (gaming and encoding / streaming on CPU) gives me CPU temps of ~75C and GPU temps of 55-65C.

Stock side panels perform well, so you should be fine. The only issue the case has is exhausting hot air, which is offset when you ramp the fans up. I haven't had any stability issues and I run my CPU at 4.9 GHz across all cores currently. Will update table with new figures soon :)

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 8 months ago

https://i.imgur.com/4kIgmJw.png - HWinfo after 100 hours.
The averages column are my idle temps (because I wasn't under load for 100 hrs) but maximum temperatures are there too. GPU never passed 71 C with the window kit (briefly, average is lower)
This is also with the window kit installed. You'll get lower temps with the stock panel.

Gooberdad 10 Builds 2 points 8 months ago

Mini monster.

Thumbs up.

Jeeper1704 1 Build 2 points 7 months ago

+1 for pre-ordering Ryzen 7 2700x!

mfbalin 2 points 6 months ago

Did the stock prism cooler fit into the case?

Meceka 1 Build 2 points 6 months ago

Really interesting build :) I am also going to get a 2700x and I'm waiting for x470 mini ITX motherboards to be released. You are saying that Mini-ITX does not benefit from the x470 advantages. I didn't hear about that before, can you please share more information about that?

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 2 points 6 months ago

It matters on larger boards (mATX/ATX/eATX) but on ITX there's little to no benefit in buying a chipset with more PCIe lanes if you only have 1 slot.
In my case, the B350/X370 variants of this board have identical VRMs, IO, and OC capability, and only differ on the wireless card.

I'm not sure about X470's capabilities but I'll do some additional research when they come out. This B350 board has been enough to run my 2700X with XF2 pushing to 4.35 GHz frequently but if you can wait to see B450/X470's offerings, I would :)

CaffeDoppio 1 point 6 months ago

It's hard to find full technical info directly from AMD on the 400 series features - so much vague marketing waffle. As far as I can tell Precision Boost Overdrive (an automatic overclocking feature) is new, along with StoreMI, which we probably don't need, and specific support for higher memory clocks. It seems that everything else - XFR2, Precision Boost 2, etc. - are available on B350/X370 with 2000-series Ryzen and a motherboard BIOS update.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=426hLGoXDbM

Edit: A little more info I've dug up. Memory support is AGESA (AMD BIOS) related, so if your motherboard gets the BIOS updates then faster memory is supported.

Cooe 1 Build 1 point 6 months ago

Precision Boost Overdrive is also on X370 (at least the boards with sufficient power delivery) which is the major reason I'd recommend it over B350 for a 2nd Gen build, even if mITX. PBO's quite literally the future of CPU overclocking (exposes all the Precision Boost 2 parameters for manual setting, aka allowing you to make it as aggressive or timid as you want / your cooling & power delivery can handle). Dumb, all-core multiplier (and even Turbo Boost by core count ala Intel) overclocking is officially obsolete & outright antiquated in this new Precision Boost 2 + Precision Boost Overdrive world, so if you have a desire to get down & dirty with your chip, get an "X" series board. (I spent an entire day with PBO dialing in Precision Boost 2 to match my H110i & high end [for X370] power delivery, and as such I can unequivocally state, this is the glorious future of CPU tweaking. Overclocking is dead; long live overclocking!!! ; ] )

In actuality, the only thing X470 adds vs X370 at the chipset level is StoreMI support; beyond that X470 boards just tend to have beefier power delivery & the usual year to year mobo changes.

[comment deleted]
-Monstar- 2 points 6 months ago

Hi Pazaz, i'm planning to build my first gaming/coding/rendering PC on the DAN cases (v3) with a Ryzen 7 2700x, but do you think it will be ok with just the Noctua as cpu cooler ?

Also do you know which GPUs (1080/1080ti) fit on this case ? Because on Dan' site they only say the max Lenght of ~300mm or something, but not the width/depth.

Thanks :)

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 2 points 6 months ago

I think the official specification says 295mm, but my EVGA FTW3 1080 Ti is 300mm. So anything dual-slot up to the size of a FTW PCB (an inch or two taller than the reference) should be fine.

Are you talking about the Noctua NH-L9a? If so it'll probably be fine, but I would disable XFR2. The cooler is meant for 65W CPUs and XFR2 will easily boost to double that.

vatch 2 Builds 2 points 4 months ago

can the VRM handle the 2700x?

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 4 months ago

Yep! I'm running at a constant 4.05 GHz (I could go higher) and in the background using it for hosting Plex / Usenet downloading + extracting.
Works perfectly

vatch 2 Builds 1 point 4 months ago

thanks for getting back. I went with Asrock x470 Sli/AC as i cant pass the deal

Hifihedgehog 2 points 2 months ago

Clever name! I see you are paying homage to those retro AMD codenames that reference The Land Before Time like Chomper? ;)

Is 1.35V CPU voltages asking probably too much if I switch to the DAN A4-SFX? I have a Ryzen 7 1700 at 3.9 GHz and 1.35V, on the same motherboard as yours, that stays under 80 degrees in my RVZ02. The big difference, however, is I am currently using a ID-COOLING IS-60 with a Delta Electronics AFC1212D 120x120x25mm Cooling Fan, 3400 RPM, 113.11 CFM, flipped to exhaust out (default would be intake). I would like to get either the Cryorig C7 CU or Dan's newly unveiled Black Ridge CPU cooler and put my system in a DAN A4-SFX v3, maintaining my OC configuration. I may need to drop the clocks down to 1.275V (I believe that is where my 3.8 GHz stable OC was at last I checked), though. I would really like to keep my OC up where it is given the lack of XFR for a high single-core boost.

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 2 months ago

I think 1.35v would probably be okay in games, temperature-wise, but stress tests and benchmarking might get you into an uncomfortable range.
3.8 vs 3.9 GHz isn't that much of a decrease so if you have to drop it, don't worry about general performance too much.

Hifihedgehog 2 points 2 months ago

Hmm... If I got the successor to the 2700X, do you think it would probably be okay at stock if I just rely on its single core boost for the high single-threaded/single core performance? I only care about high clocks when it comes to a single-thread netting more frames in emulation like Cemu and Dolphin. The multi-core performance is already more than sufficient.

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 2 points 2 months ago

With my 2700X/B350, XFR2 boosted 2 of my cores to 4.35 GHz and the rest between 4.05-4.2 GHz, albeit the voltages were a little high for me sometimes.
You should be fine relying on XFR with the newer generations but make sure you get fast RAM to go with it.

Hifihedgehog 2 points 2 months ago

Will do on the memory! Infinity Fabric loves fast memory since its speed is derived from the memory and it will operate faster with faster memory.

sponix 6 Builds 1 point 9 months ago

Think you spent way too much on the case compared to say a Thermaltake V21 or so that would cost about $60...

But over all like what you did with the build.

Thanks for Sharing !!

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 9 months ago

Yeah, conventional cases are cheaper. But I'm a huge fan of custom cases now that I've done so many normal builds :) (building is a hobby for me, if I was going to just build a PC and be done that would've been long ago)
It could've been a little cheaper but I wanted the window kit included.
Also thanks for commenting!

sponix 6 Builds 3 points 9 months ago

If you get a second.. Please check out my builds, especially my new/old mining rig. It has a very nice open air case that cost me next to nothing. I plan to bread rack it in the near future though after I get some riser to hang the cards.

Liera21 2 Builds 1 point 8 months ago

Thank you for the picture of the Dan case over a regular mini-itx case, it really gives a perspective of the size!

BenBuildsABeast 1 point 6 months ago

Great build! But why the switch from the 8700K to the 2700X?

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 3 points 6 months ago

I can advocate for both CPUs, but it's entirely dependent on your workload.

With the 8700K I was able to get closer to matching 240Hz on my display in combination with the 1080 Ti, but streaming and gaming had some frame dips occasionally on newer titles.
The 2700X is a much smoother experience even while streaming and gaming. Games are starting to properly saturate all cores and that really shows when streaming with x264.

If I was purely gaming the 8700K would be a winner. But, as all good things must come to an end, I also use this desktop for work. My 2700X speeds up my workflow in all the applications that I use.

toot1231 4 Builds 1 point 6 months ago

Because its a better CPU in general

moreaud 1 point 6 months ago

Hey man! I'm doing a very similar build and was worried about the C7 not cutting it. How is it working out for you? Any thermal throttling during stressing? What about temps during gaming? Can it sustain high boost frequencies during long gaming sessions?

Thanks!

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 6 months ago

I'm doing some cooler comparisons currently, but it's not entirely accurate because I broke my original C7 fan :( With a NF-A9x14 (1.32W retail variant) it doesn't cool the chipset or VRMs well enough to sustain XFR2's typical voltages (1.3-1.5v). I recommend 3.9-4 GHz at most with a low profile cooler, the voltages on Zen+ are around 1-1.15v at that frequency.
I'll update the description when I have some comparisons. The stock cooler is definitely the best, but it does stick out of the case.

moreaud 1 point 6 months ago

What temperatures would you get during full boost say in games? And what about load-testing (i.e OCCT or prime)?

Regarding VRM temps, you can always use a 120mm fan and have it protrude over the VRM heatsink. Thats what I plan to do on my 2700X build, but I'll be building mine in the Ghost S1 which has 66mm clearance.

Tyloo_wNv 1 Build 1 point 6 months ago

Hello, could you test the temperature of 2700x with Al C7 with and without the regular case side panel? I'm still waiting for my Copper C7 and Dan case to come so I'm very interested if a Copper C7 with A9x14 can handle this CPU. I also ordered two akasa 80x10 fans so that there could be some air flow at CPU location.

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 6 months ago

Will do when I get home to test.
I think with the additional fans you'll be fine, with my aluminum C7 + A9x14 I can't get a lot of airflow over the VRM or chipset heatsinks.

Tyloo_wNv 1 Build 1 point 6 months ago

Thanks! Will keep an eye on this post for your update.

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 6 months ago

Updat(ing/ed) my post with figures :) Your Copper C7 should work great! Jealous lol. My 8700K has a copper IHS and a full copper heatsink (LP53), works pretty well

Tyloo_wNv 1 Build 1 point 6 months ago

Thanks for your reply. I just got my copper c7 yesterday and i haven't tested it yet since the A4sfx has not been shipped yet....

yenic 1 Build 1 point 6 months ago

Glad I found this build. I use a C7 and had an 1800X, then sold it and put in a 1700. It runs a lot better with that processor. I'm looking to upgrade to Ryzen2, and choosing between the 2700 and 2700X. The smart decision would be for me to stick with the 65W TDP 2700, but not sure I can resist.

In my tests with the 1700 vs 1800X in the same system, the 1800X was a consistent +10C for both idle temps and load temps from the 1700.

I don't really care about the extra heat, the +10C thanks to AMD's soldered IHS still allows it to run under 95C, but these chips do lose some performance over 60C. The other problem with the 95W+ chips is that they expose all components to lots of unnecessary extra heat on a 27/7 basis.

Do you have hwinfo idle temps for the 2700X? Should be around 47C +/-5C but still be interested in real numbers.

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 6 months ago

In my best tests (on a possibly advantageous modified C7 configuration) I've seen 30 C consistently at 4.05GHz, and at worst (few mins after stress testing) 38C.
Check out the post description when you get the chance if you want to see my full test results.
The stock heatsink of the 2700X is amazing and boosts to 4.35GHz easily for me. If you can fit it I recommend it

Both CPUs are great and you can get either to run cool on this new 12mm process :)

yenic 1 Build 1 point 6 months ago

Your temps are great. I'm getting the C7 Cu while I'm at it to replace my old C7, and moving my Noctua fan over to the new one. I decided I'd go for the 2700X. Voltage requirements on Ryzen2 have dropped significantly. It should be ok, and, I can't resist anyway.

I need the motherboard to come in stock, but I may be the first Node202 / 2700X on here.

What's amazing is that thanks to the solder, we can run 95W+ TDP CPUs in spaces and with coolers that just isn't possible on the Intel stuff.

Tyloo_wNv 1 Build 1 point 6 months ago

hey man, what's your ram frequency and timing when your CPU runs at 4.05Ghz 1.25V ? I locked my ram to 3200Mhz and it can only run at 16-22-22-22-75. and I can't even stabilize my cpu at 4Ghz with 1.4V lol

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 5 months ago

RAM running at 3000 MHz, haven't fiddled with my timings much but I think it's at CL16 (Intel can handle lower timings just fine).
Are you able to hit 4 GHz with no RAM OC? And do you have a Zen+ (2700/2700X) or a Zen (1700/1700X/1800X) CPU?

Tyloo_wNv 1 Build 1 point 5 months ago

Ryzen 2700x with Copper C7+A9x14 4Ghz is not very stable and temperature is very high. FPU will freeze my computer so I run my CPU at stock clock and let it adjust frequency on its own. I tested a few games. RAM is at 3200Mhz. Some games like Crysis3, CPU temp is about 92-94 (82-84) at 3.8GHz. Temperature is pretty bad on the desk so I guess it might be worse in a Dan Case.

*I'm running at Ryzen Power Management, not regular win10 high performance or balanced.

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 5 months ago

I run a fixed overclock (changed P-state 0), so it's always at most 4.05 GHz 1.25v. Stock overclocking increases the heat a crazy amount because XFR2 boosts to 1.4-1.5v

Tyloo_wNv 1 Build 1 point 5 months ago

Is your computer stable in aida64 FPU stress test? I tried to fix the clock and none of them are stable. And the wired thing is, no matter what voltage and clock the CPU have, in a FPU stress test the whole computer will be freezed in a few seconds. I even tried to use stock clock with all auto setting, and FPU stress test is still unstable. I don't know is it the CPU's problem?

spoorky 1 point 5 months ago

Hey Pazaz, sweet build! I'm not experienced with mini ITX cases at all, however this has me intrigued. With the stock DAN Case what all fits inside with making use of the removable portion of the window kit? Is it just the stock Ryzen heat sink that gave you trouble, or does the Cryorig C7 not fit either?

Pazaz submitter 6 Builds 1 point 5 months ago

The Cryorig C7 will fit with the stock panel and window kit, the stock 2700x heatsink is just wayyyyyyy too tall for the A4-SFX unless you're okay with exposing the fan. I got some compliments with the stock heatsink because it was unique but I didn't want to see what the dust buildup would be like (there's no filters as is but still) so I changed to the Cryorig C7.
If you use the window kit and remove the acrylic window then you have basically no height limit on your coolers. But I would go with a slightly larger case if you don't fit within stock dimensions

DeltaZ 1 point 4 months ago

In three words:

Tiny but awesome

[comment deleted]