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Opposition You Respect

tragiktimes101

7 months ago

Anyone have someone on the opposite side of politics whom you respect?

I'd have to go with Andrew Yang.

Comments

  • 7 months ago
  • 12 points

Sheev "The Senate" Palpatine.

  • 7 months ago
  • 3 points

The Senate

Not Yet....

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

It's treason then.

REEEEAWWWHHHHH

  • 7 months ago
  • 6 points

Guy here in UK called Jacbob Rees Mogg. Part of the conservative party and leading brexiter figure. I absolutely loath the guy, but have respect for his uncanny ability to seem reasonable.

He basically seems to be a man of the people (well brexiters) and can talk in a very composed and articulate way that even if he is arguing against someone armed with the real and proper facts and he is talking with emotion, he will generally seem to win the argument. Similarly he seems to be a man of the people, but in reality inherited millions, was a banker (which most brexiters despise) has nannies in his household, large holdings in tax havens and recently moved his company to Ireland in order mitigate impacts of brexit (even though he is a lead figure). Suffice to say, while I loath him, he somehow manages to appeal to the very people who should be the ones who despise him. Its amusing to say the least.

  • 7 months ago
  • 3 points

Jacbob Rees Mogg

...that's a made up name.

  • 7 months ago
  • 4 points

I know he's far from being current but Jimmy Carter. While I disagree with just about every political position he's ever held, I believe that he sincerely wants to make the world better and I absolutely admire his work with habitat for humanity. I also believe him to be an honest man which is something I seldom say about any politician on either side of the aisle.

  • 7 months ago
  • 3 points

Did you respect him before appearing on Ben Shapiro or because he appeared on Ben Shapiro? I ask because I've noticed a lot of "right wingers" respecting him because he had a discussion with Ben.

Who do I respect on the opposite side? I.. Don't know really because I don't even feel like I'm on a side, i have views on things that conflict. I'm very "socialist" when it comes to government (I like government in our education system and healthcare for example) but I guess I'm conservative on the societal aspect.

So I respect Ben because whilst I don't agree with things he says (though I agree on some things) I can respect somebody who sticks to his guns on issues and truly believes what they say. (though in my honest opinion, on certain topics such as healthcare, he can be misleading, but i wouldn't say he outright lies).

  • 7 months ago
  • 3 points

I can respect somebody who sticks to his guns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_elgBgbMSk#t=8.4

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

I can respect somebody who sticks to his guns on issues and truly believes what they say.

Root_User's video below is a funny example of why I stopped saying this. I think people should believe what they say, but I also want people learning and evolving when needed, too. And just because someone sticks to their guns, doesn't mean they're respectable in the slightest.

  • 7 months ago
  • 3 points

I've kinda wondered about it, but I still do respect people who I wildly oppose (btw Alex is somebody I don't respect because he's said in official proceedings the **** he says, is nonsense, meaning he either doesn't believe what he says, or is willing to lie about it to get what he wants).

I respect that they say what they mean and how they feel, even if what they say could ruin them... To me there's some admiration in that quality (of standing and sticking up for what you believe, not whatever the belief is), now obviously that doesn't translate to agreement or hell even acceptance to the actual belief.

-edit

I had an extra though I felt like i should edit in.

Maybe I'm wrong on this position but for me, if i respect people i like because they stick to their principles. I have to have respect for that same position if it's someone I don't like, otherwise I don't really have that respect.

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

for me, if i respect people i like because they stick to their principles. I have to have respect for that same position if it's someone I don't like, otherwise I don't really have that respect.

This makes complete sense. I hear you on that; if you were being selective about respecting those who stand by their beliefs, then you wouldn't actually be respecting them for standing by their beliefs. I getcha.

My point is that once upon a time I felt the same way, but then I realized the substance of those beliefs, and the intent of people, is far more important (at least, imo) than the fact that they're willing to stand firmly by whatever. People stand firmly by utter nonsense all the time. We're actually really good at that lol.

If someone is willing to fight to the death to defend the flat earth theory, I have zero respect for that individual because they are being willfully ignorant, AND are promoting utter nonsense that has the chance of infecting other humans. They are literally part of the cancer of human intelligence.

  • 7 months ago
  • 3 points

If someone is willing to fight to the death to defend the flat earth theory, I have zero respect for that individual because they are being willfully ignorant, AND are promoting utter nonsense that has the chance of infecting other humans. They are literally part of the cancer of human intelligence.

Totally agree here. Conviction, intent, and merit all come into whether respect should be shown, not just conviction alone. IMO, at least.

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

I hear you, When i see Anti-vaxxers spout their nonsense, where they've clearly been told the truth but choose not to believe it, I get mad. They're quite literally leading to the death of children and the infirm. However to me (And i totally understand why you use your system), I respect that they stick by that position, I abhor it and believe quite honestly that these people (If they're not ignorant) should have their kids taken from them, but I have to respect that they're sticking by that belief. As i said i do it for those I like, it would be hypocritical to not do it for those I dislike.... Not that I've never been hypocritical but it's something I strive not to be

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

And just because someone sticks to their guns, doesn't mean they're respectable in the slightest.

This is very true. A lot of flat earthers stick to their guns pretty adamantly.

  • 7 months ago
  • 3 points

Yup. And anti-vaxxer's!

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

And just because someone sticks to their guns, doesn't mean they're respectable in the slightest.

This. Completely agree here.

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

It is hard to respect someone who sticks to eff'ed up believes regardless of all the evidence or because it upsets the status quo they prefer. It can often be the mental equivalent of hiding under the bed, and good luck respecting someone who does that.

It's hard to respect someone for just being stubborn or contrary, which is what sticking to some of those guns comes down to.

It's hard to respect someone who's only seeking to uphold or confirm their pre-existing beliefs.

Of course nobody is perfect, and respect is conditional on upholding certain ideals, and what those are tend to vary from person to person.

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

Below?

It's treason, then.

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

Haha, perhaps I should switch my upvote to a downvote and make it true ;P

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

Did you respect him before appearing on Ben Shapiro or because he appeared on Ben Shapiro? I ask because I've noticed a lot of "right wingers" respecting him because he had a discussion with Ben.

I wasn't all that familiar with him before watching The Sunday Special. But, that's not really what makes me respect him (although I do give respect to anyone willing to discuss their ideas with those of different ideologies). What really makes me respect him is partially that I think there is a decent amount of merit to many of his ideas and points. The other part is that he was respectful and tactful while defending his arguments and never going to straw man arguments, shifting the goal post, or insinuating moral flaws towards those that might critique some points he makes.

Overall, this is what we need more of in politics.

  • 7 months ago
  • 3 points

Probably a lot of people on this forum, Adlai Stevenson, and some of my IRL friends.

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

Probably a lot of people on this forum,

Please elaborate my dear sir.

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

Well, prime example is gorkti200. I don’t really agree with a lot of his political views, but he’s such a great guy.

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

What are his politics?

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

I want to know as well!

  • 7 months ago
  • 3 points

John McCain

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

Cory Booker, hell of guy and certainly someone I have huge respect for, but I have a preference for the politics of Bernie Sanders & Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (if this this actually counts given that they are all Democrats, though with seemingly different political views). I actually like Andrew Yang, he appears to be in politics for the right reasons and has some very interesting ideas.

I also have respect for Mitt Romney, but I certainly don't share any of his political views which to me are even more alien than those of Cory Booker, but as person I have great respect for his character, conviction & his honesty.

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

I don't really respect many politicians..I used to be hardcore conservative but the polarizing nature of todays politics and the ulterior motives+sensationalizing from each party has pushed me away from politics in the united states in general.

My Ukrainian immigrant friend has gotten me interested in their politics though, and apparently the next president of ukraine might very well be a comedian with no prior political experience.

  • 7 months ago
  • 5 points

might very well be a comedian with no prior political experience.

That sounds kinda familiar.

/s

  • 7 months ago
  • 3 points

no need for an /s. There seems to be a common trend of choosing people who have no prior political experience...Not an opinion, its literal fact.

I think this is because trust for politicians are running especially low right now.

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

There have been some good leaders that had no prior political experience. President Grant and President Eisenhower come to mind. Of course, there have been some pretty bad ones too (I'm looking at you, President Hoover).

  • 7 months ago
  • 4 points

That is true. I don't think political experience alone determines whether a candidate would be a good president, but mainly their ideas.

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

Went over that in my history class recently. You know you suck when people start tagging your name onto every negative thing that happens to them. Hoover flags, hoovervills, etc.

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

There's definitely some, but I've been trying to stay away from political threads recently so I won't get into it.

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

Andrew Yang?

I didn't know you were conservative OP.

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

Former Liberal turned Libertarian Conservative. lol

  • 7 months ago
  • 3 points

Can i ask what made you change viewpoints? Was it new experiences? New People? New mindset? or something else.

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

A lot of things, really. I began to take more responsibility for myself, even in hard situations and that pushed me towards not only appreciating being poor and the struggles associated with it, but appreciating the ability to work harder to do better (I started putting in overtime every week and managed to pay off ~15-20k debt last year). I got off food stamps willingly because I saw providing food for my family as my responsibility, not the governments. That made me question whether the system was truly helping me or hindering me.

Another thing that pushed me towards being a Libertarian Conservative was when I started seeing the gross inefficiencies in the government (and really, any large bureaucracies). I started listening to a lot of Milton Friedman's lectures, which led me to believe that free markets cut down on inefficiency while being pushed by market forces to generally work at the behest of its consumers (there are some checks needed, though). For this reason, I think many of the aspects that are handled by government (especially healthcare and social security) should be privatized (a lot like Sweden privatized their social pension system).

I also started looking at a lot more history; the independence people used to show, the events that led to current systems, and the works of philosophers such as Karl Marx (well meaning, but naive and deluded), Josiah Warren, Frédéric Bastiat, John Locke, James Madison, George Mason, Thomas Jefferson, and a few others. This really pushed me towards believing that the state is the most dangerous entity in society and needs strong checks on what it is allowed to do. It also pushed me towards believing that the role of the state is simply to protect human rights of its subjects. All other responsibility lies with the people.

Sorry, long write up. That sums up most of it, lol.

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

Fiscally libertarian, socially conservative?

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

That's hard to answer, but I would have to say fiscally conservative, socially libertarian.

A different way to say it; the government needs to spend as little money as it can while maintaining human rights while people should be allowed to live and let live.

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

I think that's fiscally libertarian, but maybe I'm wrong.

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

Really, it falls hand in hand with both. Core tenants of fiscal Conservatism are predominantly low government spending with low debt accumulation.

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

I don't agree with Marxist ideas, but he did make some good points and he had the courage to speak out

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

Not really, mostly because I don't have time to listen to all of them. I don't even like that many on 'my side' if there is one. I think people who serve the people should do just that so for example when someone says lets have healthcare for everyone (in US, which they have now anyway) I think sure that is great. But when they want half the paycheck of working people (only the % of people working) and it will make all of them poor that just isn't going to work well. Making people poor is the worst thing you can do to them. So you have a good idea but nobody smart enough to implement it in a way that works well, assuming it is possible. We all know there is a ton of waste and over charge in healthcare, but no you can't look at that. Aside from that most politicians/news people love to do and talk about things that do not affect the people or refute the people. You don't see anyone in the US doing something about the 20 bogus phone calls a week we all get from computers, and that is a terribly simple thing to address compared to healthcare lol. If anyone wonders how Trump and other alternate people got elected, that is a big reason why. Talk is cheap, we have an endless supply. Most people that say good stuff are not in a position to do it.

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

This is a good post. Glad you like Yang also. I've been on the Yang Gang since long before that meme existed lol.

I feel like I should start by reiterating once again that prior to 2016, I was pretty centrist. I didn't have a side (still registered Independent). The overton window shifted so far into crazy town with Trump that, even if I hadn't changed at all, I'd be a liberal by default because my positions would now be on the Left side of that spectrum. But I have changed as well, as the more I dig into politics, the more I realize that I was ignorant on a lot of positions.

Chris Wallace is one of the few conservatives that come to mind that I respect. He always seems to be on the level. I never hear him supporting the whackjobs either.

Charles Krauthammer gave a similar impression (rip).

David Frum has written some real crap but also some good stuff so he gets a halfway pass.

Conor Friedersdorf is a conservative writer for The Atlantic who comes off real rational, and has excellent critiques of Obama's presidential failures that are very grounded (instead of being ******* retarded like the mainstream conservative talking points).

John McCain (also rip) is probably the only politician I'm putting on this list, as they're all pretty much looney toons. Also because literally every Republican politician has fallen in line openly or tacitly with Trump, which means they've fallen in line with being anti-US Constitution (and a whole host of other terrible qualities). And yes I respected him long before Trump.

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

I feel like I should start by reiterating once again that prior to 2016, I was pretty centrist.

Funny you say that, because prior to 2016 I was somewhat leftist. I still don't see myself as right wing, but I am staunchly Libertarian. So, I find myself agreeing more with the right than the left on many solutions to issues. I'm a "the government really sucks at most things" kind of guy.

I do like Conor Friedersdorf and David Frum for the most part but, as you said in regard to Frum, they have written some crap (I suppose most people have). I'm not really familiar with the others you listed, but I'll have to look into them.

even if I hadn't changed at all, I'd be a liberal by default because my positions would now be on the Left side of that spectrum.

I get that. That's partially why my position swung. Not so much that my ideals did, just the lines in the sand did. I do see conservatives as having swung left in some societal positions such as generally being more pro gay marriage than they were in the past, which I agree with.

Glad you like Yang also. I've been on the Yang Gang since long before that meme existed lol.

I'm not sure if I see him getting the 2020 nomination, but wouldn't hate it, either. I'm a big fan of Trey Gowdy as far as politicians (or former ones) goes. I'd like to see a Gowdy 2024 presidency with Yang as VP, lol.

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

I don't see Yang getting nominated, either. Who knows he might lead a surprise campaign; nobody thought Trump had a chance in 2015 when he announced. But I really don't see Yang winning the nomination.

Trey Gowdy can suck a big donkey **** though. What an awful ticket that would be lol

  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

Who knows he might lead a surprise campaign

You never know. It could happen. But, I feel he'll be sabotaged by those further left than himself.

Trey Gowdy can suck a big donkey **** though. What an awful ticket that would be lol

My thoughts if Cummings were to run, lol.

[comment deleted]
  • 7 months ago
  • 5 points

May I ask why you don't respect Ben?

For example I had great respect for Senator McCain

Hard not to. The man was a respectable guy.

[comment deleted]
  • 7 months ago
  • 1 point

Okay.

[comment deleted]
  • 7 months ago
  • 4 points

I tried to keep you afloat. Truly.

  • 7 months ago
  • 3 points

Cause people are bitter.

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

I ate breakfast with Senator McCain and was then privileged to have him re-enlist me on July 4th when I was in Afghanistan. Even though I disagreed with him on some things on a fundamental level, I respected the hell out of that man because he always did what he thought was the best for the people and fought hard for what he believed in.

I get chills just thinking about that morning with him. What a rare man.

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

That is freaking awesome.

  • 7 months ago
  • 3 points

Here is the picture of me and several other people re-enlisting (with my name blotted out of course). It's not a great shot, but it's the only decent picture I have. My friend had to sneak the picture because we weren't allowed have cameras without prior approval, lol.

  • 7 months ago
  • 2 points

That is an incredible honor you received.

[comment deleted]

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